Seems fake.

This topic contains 51 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Edward Edrewardloar 3 weeks ago.

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  • #22135 Reply

    Ray

    I’m a bit late, but…

    Explain to him that: The information behind the location (which is generally very complex, with massive hex IDs) is put through an algorithm, which generates text based on that location. Because the algorithm is the same, the result is always the same for the same location (2 * 2 will always be 4, 5+4 will always be 9).

    This allows any random order of characters to be generated via this algorithm. Because of this immense variety, you’ll never find much of anything by wandering about, since the chances of finding something coherent are astronomically low. However, because it’s an algorithm, you can reverse engineer it to find locations (I can find “9” with the locations “3 * 3”, “6 + 3”, “7 + 2”, “27 / 3”, etc.).

    #22158 Reply

    Emrio

    Are you going to share the source code of the library?

    #22223 Reply

    Alejandro

    I have an idea and I want to share it with you all.
    Let’s say you want to generate all the possible numbers that can exist that meet the next criteria: 1.- use base 10, 2.- max 5 digits.
    So, you will have all the possible numbers from “0” to “99999”, agree? Ok, if I search for the number ” 768″ for example it will be repeated a lot of times cause it can be arranged in different ways like: “00768, 07680, 07681” etc, BUT, if I want to find the number “55555” for example, there can’t be more than one? Haha. The library use base 29(all the letters plus the space, coma, and period), 3200 is the max of digits, if I write 3200 times the letter “a” like “aaaaaaaaaaaaaa…….” Why it would give me more than one possible result?

    #22227 Reply

    Delengroth
    Participant

    @Alejandro
    Great question. 3200 is the max number of characters per page. The max number of characters per book is 1,312,000 (3200 * 410). Page 1 could be “aaaaaa…” and page 2 could be “aaaa…”, “bbbb…”, “cccc…”, etc.

    #22386 Reply

    Skepticism

    The idea of the library is fascinating, but without the source code, it’s a dichotomy. There are far too many books to keep them all pregenerated on a hard drive. So either the code generates the proper location and and book, or (and skepticism refuses to be silent), it would be very easy to insert the search query into a random book. This is why it’s hard to deal with gigantic numbers, larger than the atoms in our universe. The closest thing we can get is a simulation. So the question becomes, ‘is it an authentic simulation?’ once again, the code is the only proper answer to the question, but I’m skeptical because of how quickly all the books can generate. Even a simple sentence has millions of variations. I’m also not familiar with the creator of the website, so I don’t know if he would be more inclined to create a gimmick that just injects the search into a random book and makes it look nice, for the feeling of authenticity without the hassle of hard drive space.

    I think the better question is whether or not the experience of the library is authentic. The story even says that something so massive and complex, maybe not infinite, but close enough for our purposes, could only have been created by a god. Would it actually be scandalous for the site to simply inject the search into characters? I don’t think so. Like Minecraft, that’s the only way so much data can be managed.

    But that also raises the question, do all the things mentioned in the book, a description of God, autobiographies of angels, the stories of our lives, actually exist in this library? Technically, in Minecraft, the areas you visit are generated when you enter them, and they are saved in the files. BUT they only exist after you cause them to.

    SO the distinction between the website and the real library is that these things can only exist after you search for them. Wheras in the short story, that information is already there waiting to be found.

    I hope that technology advances to the point where we could truly generate the full library, in all of it’s gigantism. From there, searching for full sentences would be an easy way to sort the gibberish from the relevant, and so make the information more accessible. In the book, the librarians were hard pressed in their task because their physicality limited them to looking at one book at a time, in one place at a time. Technology circumvents this issue.

    Thoughts on a digitized and indexable library of babel?

    #22388 Reply

    Delengroth
    Participant

    @Skepticism

    Many of your concerns have already been answered numerous times. You need only look for a few minutes, but for convenience I will address them all here.

    Yes, the Library is not pre-generated and stored on hard drives. As that would be physically impossible, it is instead simulated via random generation. This causes many people to question its authenticity.

    Rest assured, the Library is authentic. They way it works is like any other pseudo random number generator (PRNG). If you know how that works, then you know the concept of a “seed”. If not, in a nutshell: Computers cannot naturally produce random numbers. They instead use a mathematical equation which you provide a beginning number to (a seed), and then it outputs another number. That new number is used as the next seed and the cycle continues. Any seed that you provide will result in the exact same pattern of “random” numbers – which is why Minecraft will generate the same world given a seed. Typically (if you were to click “New World” without a seed), a PRNG will use the current UNIX time, which is the number of seconds that have elapsed since January 1, 1970, down to the microsecond – it’s unlikely that 2 people making a new world at the same time will get the same seed that way.

    The difference with the Library though, is that Jonathan created two things:
    1) A PRNG that will generate all unique books without overlap (under the limit of the hex’s length)
    2) An inverse PRNG. You’re able to provide a page to it, and it will find many books where that page is located. If you are searching for a small piece of text (under 3200 characters), the website will have to generate the rest of it.

    What this means is that, yes, all pages “exist”, but not until you discover them. That could be through the Random button or searching for it yourself, but it will always be there in perpetuity. Nobody is trying to deceive here.

    #22675 Reply

    Edward Edrewardloar

    the truth is out there

    it was the best of times
    it was the blurst of times

    we (ed and ais and I) think that this webiste is for real
    emma does not
    oscar is tired of us and likes the floor

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